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Post by QwertyuiopThePie on Jun 4, 2015 5:48:12 GMT
If you're interested, post here. Once we have a good idea of who'll be playing, we can decide on things like worldgen and such.
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Breadknife
1500+
One confusion tends to be its direct inspiration.
Posts: 1,888
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Post by Breadknife on Jun 4, 2015 5:52:06 GMT
Well, just to make it officially official, there's me. (But now for a quick sleep, before a late-morning start to the real day. I was supposed to be doing some painting. Which might keep me quiet.)
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Oviraptor
3000+
I smell like cabbage..
Did someone say space?
Posts: 3,693
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Post by Oviraptor on Jun 4, 2015 9:33:07 GMT
I'm up for it.
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Post by QwertyuiopThePie on Jul 18, 2015 9:38:54 GMT
I know I'm a bit late on this, but three people should be enough to start, at least. I'll generate the world tomorrow, pick a relatively easy location, and give Bread the first turn.
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Breadknife
1500+
One confusion tends to be its direct inspiration.
Posts: 1,888
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Post by Breadknife on Jul 20, 2015 13:36:53 GMT
Sounds good.
(What terms of play? Or are we just going to see how much and/or little we can surprise the successor?)
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Post by QwertyuiopThePie on Jul 21, 2015 3:22:18 GMT
Alright, let's get this started. I play in fullscreen, so apologies for the gigantic images. I'll put them in spoiler tags when possible. Good ol' title screen. I'm gonna generate a pretty standard world for this game. Medium length, medium size. Medium everything, really: Time gap for the generation... Here is our world! "The Wondrous Domain"... seems fitting. We've got a couple mountainy areas, couple goblin fortresses, roads connecting the main mountains... it seems like we're pretty much set. Lots of choices with the parameters I requested. I found a perfect spot. No aquifer, running river, near the mountains, near the civs. We'll have humans, dwarves, AND elves as neighbors, so trading should be interesting. There's an ominous-looking tower in the distance, but I'm sure that'll be nothing important. Being the lazy person that I am, I'll go with the preset dwarf family. I've found that it usually gives adequate results. Our fortress will be named... Toldgate! Strike the earth! I leave the first year of Toldgate's existence in the hands of Breadknife. Proboards hates my Mega link, so I've run it through ShadyURL. www.5z8.info/toosexyfortv.mov_f5j6xf_torrentEverything
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Breadknife
1500+
One confusion tends to be its direct inspiration.
Posts: 1,888
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Post by Breadknife on Jul 21, 2015 8:40:52 GMT
First thoughts, Temperature being Hot makes it good to have that river (I'd personally normally start riverless and rely on pools for emergency water, before I tap cavern-water, for surface logistics reasons). Woodland good, for essential materials (if too dense it gets in the way of my usual surface design, but I'm going to have to play in a different manner for your sakes). The biggest challenge I see is that you didn't Plan Carefully. Until I actually load the game, I've no idea what skillsets you've lumbered my initial settlers with, and perhaps I'd be better with more miners (two is good, to get dug in, sometimes I go for three when I have specific Plans) and less cheesemakers at this early stage... Future note: You could time your screenshot of the location so the flashing "X" of each sub-map location appears on the successively larger-scale maps, to make it more obvious where in the world the fort is. Also I like to check the terrain (elevations and slopes, though probably fairly flat) and the F2 (and onwards, where applicable) biome details, and you could have probably pasted those into the blank areas of that image. I tend to play in window mode, but adjust my game from 80 wide, 25 high to 120 wide, 50 high, so I'm used to the larger-than-normal screenshots, so expect those from me. (Hmm... whether to unblock the age-related Content Blocking of my ISP... It considers the 5z8 site to be an 18+ area, and I've never bothered to unlock this because it never affects any websites I actually use (whatever the content), and yet has usefully added another protection against malware/bandwidth-guzzling embedding from elsewhere, at times. I might personally make myself a DFFD account, for when I'm due to pass it on again. Always meant to get one. But while I'm making this decision I might just find myself near another less restricted connection. I should get started within the next day or so.)
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Post by QwertyuiopThePie on Jul 21, 2015 8:58:19 GMT
Of course, I could just use a different link shortener. I just ran it through ShadyURL as a joke. Here, proboards may not like my link but maybe it'll work for you:
[nobbc]https://mega.nz/#!adVwWJoR!UnOWcTZrhm4C8GeW3gg7xxBxGRIvfdb0YEpwOFlmVJY[/nobbc]
It's a pretty easy starting location (I think the "hot" only applies to one of the two biomes the fortress location crosses), and since the river is a creek it shouldn't have any major effect on surface logistics. I'd be more worried about that tower.
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Breadknife
1500+
One confusion tends to be its direct inspiration.
Posts: 1,888
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Post by Breadknife on Jul 21, 2015 22:26:31 GMT
So, while I'm not yet ready to sit down for a good Fortress planning session, I have at least managed to review that which was supplied (it's a long story, the process I had to go through, and I'll spare you it... and any images I make shall probably have to wait a while too). It is indeed a nice, meandering river valley. I think I might try to stake particular claim to some of the land within the various bows. Especially around the Sandy Loam area, where agriculture may well be established. Shallow slopes up away from the river aren't precipitous (with all the advantages and disadvantages you'd expect from that), and the Z-1 claystone layer of one section may provide my first quarried material, although I'm minded to ignore Z-1 (except for creating defences) and dig a little deeper first. The dwarves I've been given are: Kubuk Adasututh - Is an out-and-out miner, and I shall nickname her "Digger" (I usually do, with primary miners). There are very few other skills of note, which is generally how I like my miners. A bit of combat prowess wouldn't go amiss, but I try to play so that it's not something put to the test too often.
Reg Imeshgoden - Novice in carpentry and bow-making (I'll probably get him skilled up in the former, quite quickly, at least). Not much else to the character. The nickname "Saw" will suffice. By a narrow margin, is also my second most likely miner (by preferences alone, particularly liking picks), and when I get started properly I will need a second miner (*checks* ...yes, the standard two picks, as well as two axes... good) to establish the ground properly. Reg, by the way, is the only male in this, the zeroth migration wave. But his personality isn't particularly well suited to matrimony, although his dream is to raise a family, so... maybe. I never encourage these things, but I rarely discourage them anyway (during any time that my dwarves are idle enough to actually socialise). Kubuk "Digger" Adasututh has the same feeling. I'm not planning on forcing them to work the same, dark tunnel, any time soon (I'll probably use burrows to define at least two separate areas that need digging, without either getting in each other's way), but who knows what might happen in the future.
Next, Kib Rogothurist - The best lumberjack I have, which is most important right at the start, but with a wash of other skills (both in and out of the 'farming' cohort), there's the possibility of cooking and brewing duties, and is by far the best option for tending any farm plots, at this stage. I usually try to make the farmer and the cook two different individuals (and woodcutting is ideally a third!), but I'll work with what I have, here. Nickname... I might consider "Cutter" or "Cooker", but it amuses me to go for "Cookiecutter". If, at some point, I can get her to a good proficiency fighting with an axe, it'll be appropriate, but I'm not sure I want to militarise here (but future migrant waves might change my mind, in that regard). I'm not sure if I'll ever get you creating "a great work of art", as your psyche would like... would a legendary roast count?
Ah, Rigoth Fotthorzuntir, we meet at last... - It looks like (although Novice at the moment, in them all) your skills with gems and the crafting of wood/stone/bone. And you, at least, are well placed to create such a "great work of art" as you seem to desire. I foresee you as spending most of your time making trade trinkets, at least in preparation for the first caravan. (Memo to self, remember to prepare that depot!) I shall call you "Crafty" (I've rarely had such an all-rounder, before, so it's not a portfolio I've ever had to name whenever I've taken advantage of nicknames). Oh, and you also look like you might rival the other architect (see below), so I'll make sure you do some of that as well.
Rigoth Ishlumzuglar - Engraving, Masonry, Mechanic and Building Designer (all still Novice, but with related aptitudes). I'll probably put up some walled enclosures. They were going to be temporarily wooden, but if I can quickly get some stone blocks to build with then it'll let me use the wood (or preserve a backup supply of trees) more wisely. And there'll be drawbridges needing building. Even if I don't get around to making them lever-operated (which may also be your task). I was going to call you "Rock", but as only "Saw" (Reg) is male, let's try "Petra".
...No animal skills, of note. Only "Crafty" has (the mere inkling of) medical skills, but I should hopefully be able to wait until a future immigrant wave (with someone useful arriving, hopefully) before looking to satisfy any needs for these skillsets. The agrarian farming set is served only by "Cookiecutter", as is catering. Dairy production looks like it'll have to wait.
Meat (and related) production? Mosus Tholetur, front and centre! - As well as some fish-cleaning skill (maybe later), there's a smidgen of skill (i.e. Novice) in Butchering, Tanning and Leatherworking. I won't immediately slaughter my animals (two female dogs, two female cats (not my favourite animal, but at least they're not a mating pair) and two horses (one of each) that will have brought my wagon here), but it might form a future role, even if she first of all starts running around putting things in stockpiles and other odd jobs, before we have enough of the relevant production-line to start with this segment of industry (save for the bone carving, which is already covered by "Crafty"). Nickname? For the moment, I shall go with "Slaughter", as a coverall term.
There's not much representation in the metal-based industry skills (Furnace Operating is one of Cookiecutter's tendencies, who might be persuaded to go into arms and armour if I can't get someone better in a future wave).
Fishing can be done by Sarvesh Iklistdatan, but while I'll keep an eye on the food stocks brought on-site (at least until I start to grow/slaughter anything right here), right now I'm not keen on having Sarvesh sit fishing all day (although she has already started... I hate that, and will now go to (o)ptions, (W)orkshop orders, and turn auto (f)ishery off, as I will with auto (w)eb collecting and the (l)ooming of thread... the rest can stay as is). Unfortunately, Servesh has no other skills, but I'll definitely need a stockpiler and construction-maker in the early days, so as soon as the fishing concludes I'll look forward to her input into such sideline industries. (There's a hint of a possible medical career, but mostly the aptitude for various skills looks pretty negative. You shall remain nicknameless for the time being.)
Nobody has much proficiency in the ceramic skills (not sure if there's any local clay, anyway, yet)
...in short, my initial crew are: - Digger (the miner)
- Saw (the carpenter, mostly, when not filling in as secondary miner)
- Cookiecutter (lumberjack, agrarian and food preparer, who I'll need to manage carefully)
- Crafty (will probably generate a lot of the fortress wealth)
- Petra (non-craft stoneworking, with mechanical architectural sidelines)
- Slaughter (eventually a butcher, tanner and leatherworker)
- The nicknameless (could get asked to fish, at some point, but right now is the designated reserve gopher and hauler)
Digger, Saw and Cookiecutter will be excused hauling and related "skill-less" tasks, except for lever pulling (not that there are any levers yet). I generally do this for miners (as Digger definitely is, and Saw might be), given how important digging is, and I'm at least temporarily extending this to the lumberjack function. Once industries for the others are set up [edit: and immigration allows me to adjust and expand such matters], I'll wind their own tasks down. But outside of the mining function, I tend to allow food hauling to try to stave off excessive rotting, and a Trade Goods Hauling is a (sub-)seasonal need that can often do with a bit of effort. But I'm not yet ready to start with the issues of the practical fortress layout, even though I've got one or two ideas about how I'll set it out.
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Breadknife
1500+
One confusion tends to be its direct inspiration.
Posts: 1,888
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Post by Breadknife on Jul 24, 2015 0:25:34 GMT
Sorry for the slowness. I haven't had the time to splurge on my run of the fortress, yet, what with the responsibility of breaking first ground weighing greatly upon my conscience. Also, sorry, but I'd gone out today all prepared to upload the browsable map (tomorrow, probably) that accompanies the following write-up... and forgot to. And I put it on a different device, so it'll have to wait until tomorrow when the relevant planets align once more. In the meantime, I have so far found time to play up until Summer (and very slightly into it), and thought I'd give the ideas and progress, so far. The following is a little bit rambling (so unlike me, I know!), but should whet your appetite for the 'real thing'. Planning: The very first thing I did was to set up digging designations (some of them in the form of the new "Marker" designations, especially those that would cause problems being under the sparse clumps of trees I've also had to set to be felled) and burrows for the following:
Near the map edges, at the eight points of the compass, is where I'm going to set up raised and sealed observation posts. (Not, hopefully, for immediate use, but I'm planning them anyway. More details below.)
Within one bend of the river, an area that will be my (sealable) entrance enclosure.
Adjacent to that is a smaller enclosure that will contain my depot (with separate entrance). [Note, the depot is now built, but the structure of the enclosure around it is not finished. Still, that's one thing I don't have to worry about... the first caravan coming along and the 'wagons bypassing you' because of no depot...]
Within another bend, an area where I plan to set up a self-contained overground crop-farming enclosure, in an area with Z-1 soil (sandy loam).
And across on another flat area is a third (major) enclosure for an initial animal pasture at ground level (until I can breach caverns and start to get sufficient subsurface growth suited for pasturing).
I think I might also need to designate a further area to allow tree-growing, I've made no decision about this has been made as yet.
Each individual area has a burrow extending across ground level and at least Z-1 (often more), to make it easy to direct dwarves to work in precisely that area. (Every burrow also, currently, includes the Wagon's location [for food and drink, although that's now all been moved], and will be extended to include food stockpiles [it does, now, include the stockpile that has the transferred food and drink], dining areas, bedrooms, etc, as these also start to happen.) Tree-felling is mandated across the same area (sparse enough not to be an onerous task, I've had much more forested areas), and to avoid too much micro-managing, miners will only be allocated to channel/ramp into the ground for burrowed areas that are shown to be completely empty of surface trees, for the usual cave-in safety concerns, rather than work around the trees by fiddling all the area selections at pixel-level, accordingly.
Organisation: For your information, Hotkeys are currently set as follows: F1: "Gate" (original wagon locale, i.e. centre-centre, soon to be redunant once the final three items) F2: "Entry" (main aboveground point, and (temporarily) stockpile-central, around the main staircase, also has the Depot) F3: "Farm" (initial farming area, not yet in use) F4: "Paddock" (initial grazing area, ditto)
Currently, the workshops that I have are almost directly underneath the entrance (near the 'main' temporary stockpile, with more specific stockpiles for materials-in and goods-out on the layers either side), but eventually there'll be farming-related workshops located around the Farm and Paddock locales, certainly, and possibly (when I find it) a whole magma-industry complex set up (or at least started) in a suitable location for that.
Bedrooms are also not yet a thing (that'll probably happen during Summer, once I get the measure of the uppermost cavern layer, and perhaps find some interesting stone layers to put it in/quarry out, at the same time) and I really need to get Saw to break off from this initial flurry of digging to go and make a set of beds, in advance. Neither is there yet a dedicated dining area, which will probably be located near the 'handily in the middle' bedroom block. No dwarves' mood is yet tending towards the low end, but I'll keep an eye on that and I will pass on a more fully-equipped fortress, at years'-end. Probably.
Housekeeping As I'm playing this slight differently from my usual method (especially with the dwarf roles) I almost forgot about bookkeeping. I made Cookiecutter the bookkeeper (once all the trees I immediately wanted felling were felled) and installed her in a simple office (with side-rooms designated, for initially low priority digging, that might eventually become personal dining room, bedroom and tomb for whichever noble ends up needing them). Currently minimally unadorned, there's only the table, chair and doors in the otherwise undecorated room personal office. It can be retasked to a Manager (not yet appointed, but a task I usually ensure is concomitant with the bookkeeper, broker and the logical choice for the initial expedition leader by "Planning Carefully" with my original 7), quickly enough if/when needed, and forms the obvious template for additional suites as soon as multiple individuals have needs for various personal holdings.
[As of the start of Summer, the Bookkeeping is at High Precision, and 82% towards Highest. Then we can forget about that, and later on I'll worry about the Manager role, with some Broker or other getting a bit of Appraisal at the first caravan.]
What then has been(/is being) done: I've done some more digging around the (future) northeast sentry-point towers (though not yet dug the internal access into, and got its preliminary walls of this, the most complex (because of the terrain) feature. The other intended sentry-points are on flat land and have just an outline, so far. The general design I'm intending for the towers are as the following side-plan of the finished article.
_____ Roof (no internal access necessary, but may put a stairwell up there, with a lockable hatch, for convenience) H_<_H Fortifications (H) around a simple 3x3 central area and stairwell __ W_X_W __ Walls (W) around a similar 3x3 central area and through-stairwell, which overhang... ##\ #X# /## ...a deep moat, ###\ #X# /### dug into the ground around the natural rock (or soil) pillar ####\#X#/#### through which the stairwell (will eventually) ######X###### wind down to the fort internals... ######X######
It's an overkill solution to various problems (unless there's still the bug about diagonal travel across Z-levels, in which case I'll also have to install a lower 'neck' of walls at ground level - meaning I wasted my time on that part of the digging, which I could have omitted) which gives some flexibility when it comes to any future archery attacks upon enemies milling around at the edge of the map. Until and unless you get enemies that mine, this design (that I've used, in various forms, since before climbing/jumping enemies were even a thing) will probably suffice. No easy sightlines to enemies milling about in the bottom of the moat.
For the NW tower, the cross-section is slightly complicated by the slopes it is on, which is why I'm setting that up first, so nobody else has to. Until I have time, I'm only concentrating on the ramp/channel digging and the initial walls (which only otherwise unoccupied dwarves shall be sent to do). The extra level and its roof will be added once I've dug the stairwell up into the structure, with the builders then involved safe against anything that doesn't actually fly. Or is a decent archer. Or is scary enough to make them fall out. Or somehow entices them to try to climb out, as I've found that various stupid military dwarves tend to do at the worst times.
The completion of the towers may or may not happen before the end of my year's play. As may or may not a situation requiring them. (Currently I'm using Mudstone Blocks, exclusively, for aboveground construction. Mudstone because it's the most common stone, currently, and blocks because they're quicker to take to the construction sites.)
It would also be easy enough (once I can afford the manpower) to add a drawbridge out from the middle of one Wall level to the ground, controlled by a lever in a safe central location, each to act as a sally port to/from the main complex. Careful use of which sally port is open could let external works/immigrants gain entry to the fortress in the face of a siege or other hostiles or, by careful planning, the hostile forces themselves could be persuaded to move around the map at our whim, giving caravans/etc the opportunity to escape off the map in the other directions. If they're not suicidal. Which of course they often are, but at least I'd be doing what I can to give them a chance.
(A similar wall-and-moat design will eventually surround my other surface buildings. The fortress entrance and depot will eventually have controlled access, any other above-ground area will be left entirely enclosed, accessible only from the fortress.)
The only Happenings of note, so far: Two kobold thieves, just as Summer started and my first straight 'session' ended, seemingly arriving at the same time. (I'd almost forgotten they existed, it's been ages since I've seen one of them.) They ran off the edge of the map once detected, without having apparently stolen anything. (Couldn't trap or fight them, at that time, so that's all for the best.) Maybe the presence of kobolds heralds well for the lack of the usual enemies. Only Dwarve and (now) Kobolds appear on the (c)ivilisations screen, but that could easily change within a season. (Oh yeah, and one of my brung-along dogs went over and attacked some wild yaks that wandered on, and eventually off, my map. No kills, and the only injuries were to various yaks, with a host of "tearing the skin and bruising the fat!" reports, to the extent that one yak cow "looks sick!". But I didn't have the mandwarfpower to actually take advantage and go in for the kill.) So... so far, pretty calm. At least a start-of-Autumn update by the weekend, I'm sure (and probably with less verbiage (and nounage and, indeed, probably adjectivage and adverbage), because I've hopefully set the scene), if not completing my shift entirely.
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Post by QwertyuiopThePie on Jul 24, 2015 1:52:24 GMT
Nice to see someone actually using the hotkeys. It seems that a lot of people these days pass them by. Glad to see it's calm so far, although I do expect there'll be a lot of Fun by the time this fortress has fallen.
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Breadknife
1500+
One confusion tends to be its direct inspiration.
Posts: 1,888
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Post by Breadknife on Jul 24, 2015 19:37:48 GMT
I definitely find it useful to hotkey various workspaces. A quick tap takes me where I want to go (or to somewhere near where I want to go), when I'm not using "(u)nits, *choose unit*, (z)oom to unit" combo to try to go to(/near to) where that particular unit should be. (Among all the other related methods, I rarely use the (R)oom/Building list and then t/q, though. I think because that's just far too unwieldy a list.) Whether 'permanent' (main entryway), in progress (magmaducts being dug out, to make sure progress is happening) or both (the ever-expanding bedroom complex, that always seems to be at least one immigrant wave behind what I want it to be), as long as get the F-key or shifted F-key right (and not confused with another game's slightly different setup) it's always quite handy. I even have used the feature to keep track of artefacts (that, having been created, I'm trying to get the dorfs to store in the Artefact Vault as quickly as possible!), often on Shift-F8, although I don't think I've yet assigned a Follow Hotkey to a dwarf. Anyway, as promised, I've put up the browsable map. You should perhaps start at the main entrance (but see the other Points Of Interest, on the left-hand-side). I may get an Early Autumn map up very shortly, as I think I'm going to complete that phase shortly. Once I can devote a few more minutes to doing that. And then you'll see what has (and hasn't!) progressed since that snapshot was made. For one thing, I realised I'd erred with the Depot area. It should have been an 7x7 enclosure, not a 5x5 one, for various reasons unrelated to the (intentional) 'hanging walls'. But I'm working round that minor mistake without too much difficulty. (Note that the flash plugin that the DFMA uses did not work at all on the tablet browsers I use, which includes Chrome (which, ironically, I don't use on the desktop, so I can't check if this is an Android-Chrome or general-Chrome issue... I suspect the former, given the need to use Adobe AIR for similar things, in a non-browser context). But I'm sure it'll work for any other sane and proper computer system, whatever the flavour might be. Hopefully.) Anyway, FYI.
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Post by QwertyuiopThePie on Jul 24, 2015 20:03:26 GMT
I'm using Chrome, and it seems to be working just fine for me. Odd. Maybe cause it's desktop chrome?
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Breadknife
1500+
One confusion tends to be its direct inspiration.
Posts: 1,888
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Post by Breadknife on Jul 24, 2015 21:29:46 GMT
Good. Glad it works. It seemed like an Android-not-working-well-with-Flash thing. And, given I've now added the Summer-completed-Autumn-just-started map here (though have yet to put in any POIs... give me a few minutes [ ok, done]), that's yours for the perusal. (I only wanted to upload away from home because I was having upload/download problems, but at 69 to 71kb in size, it looks like I needn't have worried.) Also the... Summary of the Summer...that I jotted down, earlier. Summertime migrants: Momuz Nubamlolok, Brewer - A better brewer than Cookiecutter, at that, so that's one thing less on CC's plate. As it were. Nickname..? Let's call him "Froth" Aban Azothedem, Woodcrafter - Adequate woodcrafter, marginally better than Crafty. I dub thee "Bradawl". Kadol Lulumsolon, Fishery Worker - A clean sweep of the fishing labours. Not exactly what I'm looking for (YMMV). Another general dogsbody, for the time being. Thob Tangakled, Dwarven Child - Daughter of the aforementioned Bradawl, father, and the Fishery Worker mother. ...oh, is that it? I'm used to 7-10 first-wave immigrants, to add to the seven zeroth-wave ones. Seems I haven't yet created too much value to the site. Combat reports of a dog attacking a wild elephant. I'll see how it goes (currently as one-sided as with the yak, but it's an elephant!), then I'll set my animals into 'pastures', to avoid further accidental conflicts. Oh, and I've done some more digging, construction and production. Not as much as I'd hoped for.
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Breadknife
1500+
One confusion tends to be its direct inspiration.
Posts: 1,888
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Post by Breadknife on Jul 25, 2015 16:37:57 GMT
Early AutumnDog vs Elephant continues, as one-sided but ineffectual as it always was in Summer. Those two kobold thieves are back. (I know it's them, I previously set their equipment to be dumped, and that's stuck, even though it was also reforbidden in the interim). I need some traps. Even if it doesn't trap them. (Or a military, but I really can't spare the workforce, right now... However, mechanisms are already a side-project.) But the first major happning is: Dwarven Caravan. A selection of stone-crafts (my personal favourite easy way to dump unwanted stone and get something for it) are being moved to the Depot (fully accessible, thankfully... in any number of previous games I've managed to mess this up). But first discussions with the Outpost Liason (prior to any trading). Requests: I've specifically asked for bars of Iron, Steel and Pig Iron (only one level of priority buffing) this may raise their price a little but not so much as to cause problems should we need to buy them next year (whilst at the same time making them available to buy, which could be important), and it can't hurt if we're actually able to sell. (No ores found, yet. Usually by autumn I've been deep-digging, but it seems I've not had the manpower to allow this.) Also I've nudged the requirements for each of the seeds (may not need the seeds, but useful for getting bags) and sand (ditto). Steel Anvils, ditto (left iron anvils alone). Ewe and Ram requirements indicated (something sheerable wouldn't go amiss, and sheep are easiest; hopefully we'll get a pair). Add some Dwarven Rum (the one drink of the basic four that I rarely get around to making myself), although food and drink in general should be easy enough to pick up.
I'm tempted to ask for clay, having no obvious on-map sources, but (apart from Fire Clay), the business of using for anything other than aesthetic purposes seems too much trouble for me, at the moment, given that we'd have to buy it all in, not just scrape it up off the ground, somewhere.
I shall trust to the caravan coming along with the usual odds and bods, anyway, including thread and cloth and leather. But I usually make a habit of specifically requesting one kind of leather, to potentially make it my trademark material insofar as various armour items that the military will equip itself in. Feel free to ignore it (for the standard-price mish-mash of other leathers, that we shall have), but I've plumped for rhinoceros leather (I thought, maybe, that Elephant would be available, given how long this one's been fighting my dog, but rhino is the nearest... Nearly decided to choose coyote, as not so kitsch as jaguar or vulture, nor so weirdly different as swan or giant earthworm. Not that there's much practical difference between any of them.
(Which reminds me, hurry up Autumn Immigrants so I can start considering the military solutions, before I have to probably seal up and deal with whatever happens in winter. Only a handful of months, and I'm behind my planned schedule for the precusors, like finding ore for the metal industry!) Trade Agreement: Arising from the above requests, Rhino leather is marked as 128%; Iron bars 110%, Steel 118% (a snap!), Pig Iron 123% (too much, given they need processing!). Seeds range from 113% to 139% (managable). Steel anvils 110% (buy then melt, perhaps?). Ewe is 117%, Ram at 111%. 115% up-pricing for Rum. Sand is 117% (plain sand, that is, coloured sands are 100% and will still be sent). Future Export Percentages: Ordering from best to worst: 203% - Handwear 178% - Plants 173% - Large Gems 160% - Rings 157% - Armour 150% - Yarn Earrings 142% - Toys 135% - Cheese 128% - Maces 124% - Backpacks 116% - Drinks
This might dictate the 'nonessential' work that takes place over the next 12 months.
I think if we don't stint on the leather gauntlet production line, looks like we can sell the unwanted low-quality surplus easily enough at a good markup. Secondarily, there's leather armout, but not so advantageous apart from the need to diversify. I'm not sure it's worth splurging out on Backpacks (not leather ones, anyway), for the relative conversions. But let's see how much leather we can get, first.
The farm system should be properly up and running by year-end, such that surplus plants could be possible if there's otherwise no great demand. Not so sure about Cheese production. I tend to plough cheese into the creation of meals, personally, and it's not like we're currently producing milk. Drink production, on the other hand, probably isn't worth selling on, unless really in surplus. (Apart from anything else, it means giving barrels away!)
I already have gem-cutting facilities built. A bit of familiarisation with low-value ones could be good start, then target the rest, in the hope of getting some good-quality Large Gems out of the process.
Roughly 1/7th of the current "Rock Crafts" output is rings. I shall hold these back, this year, just don't sell them to the elves and humans, and there should be a trade bonus next autumn! In the meantime, I'll switch Craftsdwarf production to Rock Toys to get the (lesser, but more reliable) uplift to the entire output. (I'm not planning on making Yarn Earrings, but if yarn does happen, before the next twelve months are out, then why not..?)
If the metal industry starts up quickly enough, I'll try to give a smattering of the dwarves a taster for weaponsmithing Maces, perhaps, after other commitments are fulfilled. Helps with possible future mood-crafting, if nothing else, and there should be a good deal when we exchange spare maces for weapons we want. (Or anything else, for that matter.)
The tricky part was always going to be the actual trading. Having not managed to arrange for any dwarf to arrive onsite with even a smidgen of brokerage skills, I'm starting blind. But Bradawl (woodcrafter) looks to be the best of a bad lot, from personality/preferences information alone, at least until someone else wanders along with 1337-br0k3r-5k1||z! Also, he's not in an 'essential trade', so less likely than many others to be tied up with any other task whenever the caravan is in town (Crafty can be hurridly creating more stone crafts, even while Bradawl breaks off from any wooden ones) and might easily enough be occupied when it isn't. ...but barely half-way through the first month of the season, I'm going to have to break off. The trading will take some time to think about, with such a noobie broker on the job. Watch This Space
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Breadknife
1500+
One confusion tends to be its direct inspiration.
Posts: 1,888
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Post by Breadknife on Jul 28, 2015 22:35:42 GMT
Caverns found, at Z-48 (may not be the first caverns). Underground water found (at two separate levels). After adding Hotkey F5 for the top 'Core', F6 (temporarily, perhaps) to 'Cavern'. Will seal off the initial breakthrough (construction that can be removed, if necessary). On the way there, struck layers with Native Gold and Garnierite, which may be of some use. Also seen, is probably significant amounts of Gabbro (usefully magma-safe, I'll set up a workshop area specifically dedicated to process it, to that end), and with Granite (not MS, but might be useful as a statement), a layer of Marble (for high-value/aesthetic use, although of course spare some for flux), some Rutile (another MS rock) and Diorite, Schist and a continuation of the Phyllite already seen at the core layer (none particularly useful, I'd already set up phyllite as the exclusive rock craft feedstock to avoid conflicts of interest). But more exploration is needed. And has been arranged. Before trading, broker has advanced to Proficient Appraiser, just by attending the Trade Depot in his capacity as broker, it seems. 54 rock crafts (having reserved most of the phyllite rings, for later) to play with. Total saleable value (before bartering losses) is 1160* What's interesting for sale, in return? General thoughts as follows: Steel bar (150*... very expensive, given what I have for sale) Iron Bar (50*... still too rich for now, let's leave it for now, wouldn't help) Glass? (Some expensive crystal glass... but not now. Maybe for Gem Cutting purposes, in future years.) Clays? (Probably not.) A couple of 30* 'basic' ropes (not this time) Cages (I'm already making my own. Cages with animals include mule (male), cavy sow and turkey gobbler, of very little utility. Barrels of alcohol (Yes, interested.) Weapons? (A little high in price and low in variety. We'll see. Perhaps one of the cheap picks at 110*, but I've got no-one lined up to become a third miner, just yet, so probably not that.) Armour? (Copper low boots are cheap, 18* each, 36* for both in the pair, maybe, but otherwise quite expensive.) Bags (Dog leather bag @10*, perhaps, for seed/food storage) Material bins (Leather Bin at 155*. Random leather, and I'll take the bin! If I can afford it Wool cloth bins @280-300*, Plant-fibre cloth bin @450*, too expensive, but may take some individual 'bolts' of cloth, in case of a mood... and hope it isn't asking for silk.) Ammo (Out of my price-range. Pity.) Crafts of various kinds (no, I'm selling, not buying) Anvils (maybe an additional 100* iron one, not that I'm using the one I came with, yet). Foodstuffs (Definitely. Can't hurt to get a bit more food. And make lavish meals from it.) Yarn and thread (Yes, some of each, for various reasons. And there's silk threads, good. Get some and spin it to cloth if a mood demands some silk cloth.) Leggings/Backpacks/Quivers/Trap Components (No, all too expensive, except for some of the basic quivers which aren't of use right now) Cheese (Yes, a handful of cheeses @50*. Either to cook with or save until next year and trade back at a profit?) Splints/Crutches (Not important, we can always make some) Tools (Steel Minecart @1500*, nope! And Bronze Jug @100*, also no. And that's all in that part of the list.)#
So, my shopping list is Alcohol, Thread, maybe the Copper Boots, a couple of cheap (unfilled) Bags, a selection of material (including a wool-cloth bin), some Cheese (if I can), and anything I have left on various random (and cheap!) food items. Which I'll probably have to try to trade for with a 50%-100% over-barter, on my part, to avoid antagonising the Dwarven traders. But I'll certainkly push my luck a little. Alcohol bought, Thread bought. 460* left in trade goods. Copper boots and copper helm (totalling @84*) traded for... 120*? No, try 110*. 'Suggested' up to 160*. Re-adjust back to 140*. Accepted. Leather bags. 20* value for 30* trading. Done. (Couldn't cut it any finer, without mixing and matching.) Leather bin. Drat. 155* bin can't be bought with entire remaining stock of goods worth 290*. 3x30* leathers for 50*, no bin. A couple of pig tail fibre cloth items bought. A couple of wool cloth items. 60* left, so no cheese. 4 different 10* items bought with that, might get some plantable seeds from that. Trade complete. Still have some rings left, and an additional 40* figurine created whilst I was unpaused, between trades. I'm usually better off than this, but I think I did Ok, given everything. Without causing undue tension. Bradawl the Broker is now dabbling Persuader, Negotiator, Judge of Intent, Intimidator, Conversationalist, Comedian, Consoler. Could do with more, though. Luckily, the stone crafts are still being turned out, so just before the traders leave, a further 330* of my own goods nets.. A cheese (indulge me!), a some more leathers and wools cloths, and finally a selection of plants I should be able to get seeds out of (have finally remembered to uncheck the "Cook" option on all seed-bearing plants) and some fish, for variety. (Yes, I know, I could be activating my own fishing industry, but I need the manpower elsewhere!) Migrants! Here's hoping! Doren Anamlokum, Fishery Worker! - But, apart from that, looks like she'll take well to blacksmithing and armoursmithing, plus architecture. She can take over from Petra, there's still several things that need building, even while Petra constructs mechanisms. Nickname: "Helm" Because.
Bim Kadolsarek, Thresher - Adequate Thresher (there'll be work for him). "Flail"
Melbil Ushemdakost, Peasant - Has martial skills (including Competent Hammerdwarfness). "Smite". She's husband to Bim (above) and has a child who has just come on-map (see next), but I ought to get something set up, already, and this is a great opportunity.
Tirist Vutokbetag, Child - Not so useful now, but also likes hammers, I note. (Like both momma Smite and pappa Flail!)
Rakust Kuletrul, Gem Cutter - Adequately so. Slightly more aptitude than Crafty (who had just made some items). She shall be called "Jewel", and I'll get her to work immediately (restrict the single Jewellery Workshop to her, and start her on the cheap stuff).
(Urist Rakusonglesh, Gosling - Jewel's pet. Putting somewhere safe.)
Asmel Kubuckmuzish, Ranger - Novice Marksdwarf (also other animal skills, butcher, miller, milker); the start of the fledgling ranged combat squad? She shall be "Quiver"
Lokum Zonlid, Woodcrafter - She's a bit better than Bradawl in Woodcrafting (not that I've used it, yet), and useless at everything else. "Plane".
Stakud Avaliden, (another) Ranger - Novice Marksdwarf, he shall be "Drawstring", let's get that training room populated.
(Meng Lilumid, Bunny - Drawstring's pet.)
Sodel Thotholtar, 'Farmer' - Novice Tanner, Cheese Maker, Dyer. Perhaps once Quiver has milked something. Otherwise, pretty blank, right now. No nickname, maybe later.
(Also, it seems, a bull calf and a lamb, not pets. Pasturing)
So, now we're up to 18 adults (of reasonable potential), 2 children, a couple of pets and a smattering of other animals. That'll be all before the Winter, and whatever that brings. I've been prepping the military training areas, and I think I'll get some unarmed combat up and running (finally!), but I've still only found one cavern layer, which is annoying. I really should have found magma and (weapon/armour-grade) ore by now. Another layer of caverns at Z-84. Second layer? Signs of a a tunnel to much deeper system, just out of observed range. (But just caverns, no magma or spoilermetal, yet.) Carefully sealing and digging around, Also setting up the underground water supply, where this new exploration manages to miss Cavern 1's lower water-sump. Ok, third set of caverns (and Adamantine, confusingly close to copious Microcline), at Z-162. That's further down than I'm used to (bottom is Z-180). More water, still no magma. Or good ores. Annoying. Fast approaching Winter, I've made an effort to drag in as many external materials as possible (even if that means designating them for dumping), in case they become inaccessible due to hostilities. Some quick and dirty bedrooms are being dug out (not having had time to make any real ones yet, but using a place where I hope to get other rooms to be dug out anyway). I've been reorganising the Hotkeys, and considering how best to get the fortress into a 'handoverable' state of play. I've also redesignated all external (and unnecessary) digging to be "Marker", so as to not get the miners caught outside in the event of enemies arrive on map. Besides which, I really need to find that magma, and complete other internal features. The extra workers are helping, but it'd be nice to have the usual 60-odd (adult, otherwise unoccupied) dwarves to spare. ...and Winter is upon me, all too quickly. Generating a new map (now including all discovered cavern areas!), to be found here. (Hmm... 338kb, well up on the previous ~70kb. Even with optimisation and open space, that extra layer information adds quite a bit of size.) I'll try to get through this season quickly (but safely... given that I'm expecting those invaders) and then pass the game onwards immediately the year rolls over.
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Breadknife
1500+
One confusion tends to be its direct inspiration.
Posts: 1,888
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Post by Breadknife on Jul 29, 2015 6:02:37 GMT
I meant to add apologies for taking so long over the Autumn stint. The weekend was busier than I'd anticipated, and I didn't want to do the trading in fits and starts. Also I meant to edit that splurge down a little, before posting. It was a little 'stream of consciousness'. It's currently 19th Moonstone (i.e. mid-Early Autumn), about the time I was preparing to spot an enemy. But on 1st Moonstone, the following event occurred: The enemy have come and are laying siege to the fortress.A group of undead, I think. Certainly a set of Ñs, grouping just off the edge of the SE corner of the map. Without taking a moment to check them out, I hurriedly asked for the levers to be pulled, and checked where everyone was (that dog's still attacking the elephants, by the way) and wondering who would actually pull the levers. And then... they weren't there any more. No siege. And those two kobolds were discovered (within the Depot/entryway 'temporary' stockpile) and ran off again. Not stealing anything. On 2nd Moonstone. However, the upshot is (but only after several more game-days, once things had quietened down) I got a dwarf to haul the dog off to an internal 'pasture' area I'd set up for it. I was still getting 'combat spam', for a while, but that was the elephant regaining consciousness several times. It's off-map, now. (Now elephants on-map. But bonobos have entered it. Are they tagged as natural thieves? Probably doesn't matter, I've set up some cage traps, and I can always release the hounds again...) Anyway, Spring has sprung. Far too early, and just as I'm getting some things sorted. In the absence of any more hostiles, I didn't stay inside the fortress as much as I thought I might, and I've mix-and-matched internal and external jobs. Map and Savegame were supposed to be linked to, here, but it looks like I'm overloading my connection. I'll have to upload them while I'm out and about. Whoever picks up the savegame will find my design confusing, no doubt. Perhaps, when you first open it, the following (not short!) information might be useful in unlocking its mysteries. Stockpiles: The stockpile immediately around the main entry-stairway is an "everything except what I've designated as elsewhere" stockpile. The SE corner tile is designated as a refuse zone and contains items 'dumped' from elsewhere (note the setting of "Work (o)rder, (r)efuse, Dwarves gather refuse from (o)utside", which is non-default, and you might want to turn it back off whenever you want to to prevent hauliers being so easily ambushed - I already did that) Other stockpiles tend to be either rather specific (e.g. of one particular kind of stone, with directions to give to a particular workshop that will only use that stone) or of a group of materials that I needed to be stored, even when the 'everything' stockpile was jammed full of the unexpectedly large amount of logs I ended up getting. The Z-1 "entryway" stockpiles are eight equally-large stockpiles for each of the seven "rock crafts" and "rock toys" in the eighth. That's the "trade goods" area. That's for easy organisation (especially once the wooden bins I ordered to be made are actually created) rather than having mixed-goods bins with things you might want to sell along with what you might not want to sell. The Z-3 stockpiles are a combination of temporary workshop-supplies (mudstone stockpile for the mason, willow wood for the carpenter, phyllite stockpile to supply the crafts workshop and saltpeter stockpile for the (non-Magma-Safe) mechanism workshop), food and drink ones and 'hurry up and get this stuff out of the wagon' ones, including one such on Z-4. Everything specified in these should be absent from the 'everything' stockpile on the surface, but E&OE. There's stockpiles specifically for seeds/plants underneath the farming areas. With room for expansion (stockpiles and farm-type workshops). Then there are two stockpiles for only Gabbro at Z-46 at the Magma-Safe Workshops (Hotkey F6), respectively supplying the Mason's and Mechanic's workshops there. There are already some Gabbro mechanisms (for use in magma-control), but I never got around to the Gabbro floodgates (likewise); and because I hadn't yet found the magma I hadn't laid down my usual plans to actually tap it. Digging: Note that the miners belong to various of the Burrows I've defined. (All burrows contain places with food and the dining room, even though neither belong to the actual "Dining" burrow, which covers the intended full size of the ultimate dig-out.. By dint of them belonging to the 'Protorooms' burrow, they also have access to all the intended-to-be-termporary bedrooms.) I've left a number of digging designations as 'marker' designations, around the place, which should indicate the direction I was going, but of course is not intended to constrain whoever is taking over from modifying/abandoning such plans. Be careful not to cause cave-ins, by going against the natural order of things. Building: Right now, a number of walls/floors(-mostly-as-ceilings) are laid down, or in progress. There's also some floors set up (at ground level, around ditch-enclosed areas, as temporary supports to corner-walls, which I wasted time with because I forgot to support the walls by corners (building from the outside) before digging away more of the moat. There's two such floors currently being removed around the paddock, with one more that you can "(d)esignate, remove co(n)struction" momentarily. You should be able to see what I've done for the "Entry" enclosure. One edge-wall is currently a ramp (of a different material from the Mudstone Blocks that I've made everything else of). That's for access to the top, to 'floor over' as a roof to keep out any flying hostiles that might arrive. Once the roof is complete, the plan was to deconstruct the ramp and replace it with a wall. For the 'turrets' (at the eight compass points), the plan was to dig up into the turret, set a staircase up to Z+1 (Up-down at Z=0, atop the dug-up-down already designated, Down at Z+1), floor to the existing wall-tops, build walls atop those walls (except for one square, temporarily a ramp), a floor across the Z+2 'roof' (then do the ramp-becomes-wall thing, as above), then carve the Z+1 walls into Fortifications for viewing/sniping purposes. As previously discussed, one of the Z+0 walls could be deconstructed at will, a floor put in its place and a raising drawbridge extended across the 'moat', with various tactical uses. (See below about the lever room.) Farming: I have Cave Wheat, Dimple Cups and Plump Helmets (subterranean farms... progress was slowed by some 'wild' Sweet Pods growing in the way of the next intended field-to-be-placed). Methodically, I'd been intending to place (and use, as required) fields by the following plan of 1x5 fields. By sequence A..X around the centre (the stairwell, here a "."). A current organisational quirk of mine. FFFFFGHIJKL EEEEEGHIJKL DDDDDGHIJKL CCCCCGHIJKL BBBBBGHIJKL AAAAA.MMMMM XWVUTSNNNNN XWVUTSOOOOO XWVUTSPPPPP XWVUTSQQQQQ XWVUTSRRRRR
The overground farms have had seven fields laid down, one still 'awaiting the farmer', with Rice, Rope Reed, Passion Fruit, Prickle Berries and Strawberry allocated to the first five (for seeds I found I could use). You could continue with this as you find you have additional seeds available that I didn't get myself. Personal rooms: One office (for the single noble) and a number of bedrooms (enough for everyone, especially with married couples/children sharing some quarters, but those locations were intended as temporary). The existing dining room is public, but the digging designations are on the cards to open out the space for a dining room, bedroom and tomb off of the existing Office. Burrow-assignation and other miner workloads allowing. Military Training rooms: One exists, others are dug out, but still not actually in use. You could set up a danger room, in there. I never got around to putting in the target-practice ranges (below) that at some point the two currently-viable crossbowdwarves could have had a go in. I was going to get training done, in earnest, during the time I was cooped up during the Winter Siege, prior to getting live-fire opportunities at actual opponents, but that never really happened (see above); and so the urgency got lost along the way. Pastures: Surface pastures (1x11 in size) for the grazers... two horses, a lamb and a calf... subterranean pastures (1x1, on bare rock) for non-grazing creatures (dogs, cats, gosling and, until I remember if rabbits are actually grazers in DF, or see signs of hunger, one rabbit). They're all there for protection against invaders, you can set them loose if you wish. Water supply: Currently inactive (temporarily in use, but now dry whilst being expanded), there's a well set up above a cavern-supplied water-sump. There are two levers. One is attached to the floodgate holding back the cavern waters (open as you see fit), the other lever was intended for a second floodgate which was going to be an emergency drain and/or a way of supplying water to a secondary location (e.g. for obsidian creation). Explore the Well area (hotkey F5) to get a grip of where this was going. Currently digging, smoothing (unnecessary, I'll admit) and dumping the rock out of the cistern. Also some temporary floors above the gap where the water will be (replace with a whole array of wells, when you have the rope and buckets to spare!) are being deconstructed. Anyway, there should be enough capacity in that cistern that when the floodgate is opened long enough (for the whole below-well area to be filled to a reasonable level) you can close the floodgate to keep out any nasty swimmers/contamination. Contamination of the cistern/suicidally-drowning dwarves need to be sorted out by getting the drain working (I'd put the lower floodgate in 'blind', fill the place up with that floodgate closed and then you can take your own time working out what's actually at the other side of the lower floodgate while the well(s) serve the necessary purpose). Workshops: Mostly inhabitting that temporary 'sub-entrance' area. Except for a few farming-related ones beneath the fields. Some restricted to being supplied by specific stockpiles (as already described). Jeweller's is, itself, restricted to being serviced by just the main Jeweller dwarf, who I've been making practice the craft when not otherwise needing their labour elsewhere. Lever Room: Central grouping of (yellow) levers operate the bridges away from the entryway. North lever is Entry-to-outside (north exit from compound), south lever is Depot-to-outside (south exit from there), flanked by the levers operating west/east drawbridges from the same area (I had plans for elevated routes out of there, otherwise they're basically the same). The middle lever operates the two drawbridges that link the Entry and Depot compounds (between walls and below a ceiling) so that Depot can be isolated from Entry (or vice-versa), even when (either Depot or Entry) is connected to the outside. Incidentally, I've put Cage Traps around the (non-Wagon) entrances. There are enough cages in the works to add in I smoothed two spots at the eight compass-points of the room, intending one lever in each position to operate the Turret Drawbridges (as discussed), and the other lever to operate another 'airlock', at the level of this room (but directly below the turret) to provide safety, security and/or access, in whatever combination a situation might require. Whether you follow up on this, is another matter entirely. Maybe I will follow up on this, on my own privately continuation of the game (whilst, at the same time, desperately looking for that magma!), but otherwise I'm happy to hand it over to the whim of the following player. Perhaps when my turn comes round again, you'll have left me the opportunity to try it out 'officially'. Exploration: There's an "explore!" burrow, which I've used to send miners down exploration mines. When they've not been needed to do other work. I've based my explorations shafts on stairwells (mostly just the central tile of a potential 3x3 stairwell, but occasionally made to steer around caverns), and when I've discovered a cavern (or purposefully dug into the top of one, to see more of the cavern than I already knew about) sealed it off to prevent the usual problems with everything from Jabberers to the more exotic 'Visitors' climbing into my fort. How/if you re-open access to caverns is up to you. I have my own preferred methods, but I'm not in control any more of course... I have send down shafts at the points where I will have junctions (at the 'core' level). Often offset to either just miss a cavern (to try to find the other caverns/magma sea) or to deliberately try to hit the top of a cavern, near the edge of current visibility. The deepest exploration I've made hit semi-molten rock (its aim was actually to see more cavern, but it went through a non-open bit, at that cavern's depths, worse luck). You probably have your own tactics. ...so, what else? Well, you have a reasonable amount of food (and food-potential), a more than adequate amount of drink (easily expanded... and note the "Z-Kitchen" settings regarding Cookable and Uncookable items, which you can always tweak), a reasonably defensible position (additional work needed to be impervious against flying enemies, but it's getting there), and you've got trade goods for both the Dwarves (i.e. you'll want to reserve the premium toys/etc until Autumn) and anyone else who turns up with caravans (assuming Elves/Humans aren't at least locally extinct) in Spring and Summer. Noted local civilisations currentlyonly include the Dwarves and the Kobolds (although there's definitely some Undead, as predicted, however shy they seem to be), but that just means you haven't met anyone of importance from anyone else, yet. I've just checked with Dwarf Therapist, and everyone is 'fine', psychologically. Loads of "Bliss" and "Satisfied" and "Contentment" readings. There's the occasional "Embarrassment" due to fewer chairs and tables than there should be, but nothing hard-hitting that can't be solved before any existing grievances come to a head. Any new crisis coming to a head will probably not be increased significantly by such rumblings. For reference, Hotkey zooms are as follows: - (i.e. F1) Entryway - Most vulnerable/accessible part of your fortress.
- Core - Z-5 'hub' from where I've splayed out all the tunnels (note the 'temporary' and tradegoods areas sitting at Z-levels between the surface Entryway and here at the core, at some point I intended to put the workshops elsewhere, so not assigned a Hotkey to them, just up/down scroll from either of these two instead).
- Farm - At (nominal) Z-1 level, you've got both the 'surface' and subsurface farming areas within sight, stockpiles/etc on the level(s) below.
- Paddock - Surface grazing pasture area. Subsurface area (partially vegetated, but currently not actually grazed by anything) directly below.
- Watersource - Where the well is (currently dry, due to expansion/extension project), and you can find the mentioned levers on the Z below.
- Magma-Safe Workshops - Specifically set up to create magma-safe mechanisms/floodgates (and anything else that would benefit from this quality). Not yet particularly useful, as it turns out, but it's there if/when you need it.
- xxx - Was (and still is) Magma-Safe Workshops until I reorganised. Re-use.
- xxx - Was (and still is) Cavern 2, at the point first discovered. Re-use.
- (i.e. Shift-F1) Cavern 1 - topmost observed extent of Cavern 1, to save you having to search it out
- (i.e. Shift-F2) Cavern 2 - topmost observed extent of Cavern 2, ditto
- (i.e. Shift-F3) Cavern 3 - topmost observed extent of Cavern 3, ditto
And Burrows (to which only zero, one or both Miners are ever restricted, at this point in time): - Turret<Direction> - Surface and immediate subsurface 'digging out' areas for said structure, whether dug out already or not.
- Overentry - Overground (and immediate subsurface) vicinity of the Entrance.
- Overdepot - Overground (and immediate subsurface) vicinity of the Depot.
- Overfarm - Well, the farm, although it also had the subsurface farm area area.
- Overpasture - Pasture. Same idea. Same inconsistency.
- Offices - Noble rooms/suite (not currently used).
- Dining - Dining area (not currently used, and most other burrows include the extant dining area, anyway).
- LeverRoom - Room. With levers in it. In case they need pulling. Which reminds me, I still haven't put the security door on its entrance!
- explore! - How I like to encourage one/both miners to dig deeper, rather than wider...
- MagmaSafe Workshops - As already explained.
- Training - Military training rooms, for the digging out of.
- Protorooms - Specifically for getting (temporary) bedrooms, where future areas of other utility were to be eventually be placed.
- Water Supply - Where the well is.
...all burrows should include food/drink stores and facilities. Could do with an overhaul. Delete and start again, if you wish.
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Breadknife
1500+
One confusion tends to be its direct inspiration.
Posts: 1,888
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Post by Breadknife on Jul 29, 2015 21:26:32 GMT
Ok, so under the impression that one map upload didn't work, I uploaded an identical map (changing the name of the file, to let me do so) while on a more reliable connection, earlier today. And because of the problems, I also waited until then to get the far bigger savegame folder somewhere that Oviraptor (if QwertyuiopThePie intends you to take on the mantle, Ovi) can easily grab it from. It's 7-zip compressed (marginally better than .zip compression, and at the time I was going to take whatever advantage I could, and the 7-zip decompressor should be easy enough to obtain if you don'thave it already), and is the end-of-year autosave file (so as to rule out that I inadvertently might have altered anything while working out what to tell you about the map I'd left). Given this, you might want to strip the date-postfix from the folder name before you play it. I'd also renamed it "cavern2", after grabbing it, instead of "region2", because I had a region2 already in play. As might you. Doesn't affect anything, of course. You also don't need an account on DFFD to download that file (shouldn't even be as much a PITA as Mega was, for me). Whether you then use DFFD to pass on year 252 to Qtp/whoever, or not, doesn't matter. But that option is always there. Any (remaining) questions, I shall endeavour to answer them. Bonne chance. Viel gluck. Buona fortuna. Pob lwc. Xìngyùn. Kia waimarie. Qapla'! And, probably, "Eshon akam", in dwarfish.
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Post by QwertyuiopThePie on Jul 29, 2015 23:41:38 GMT
Yeah, Ovi is indeed next in line. Excellent work on the first year, much better than the last succession game I joined.
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Breadknife
1500+
One confusion tends to be its direct inspiration.
Posts: 1,888
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Post by Breadknife on Sept 8, 2015 1:03:42 GMT
Not this game (prod prod, Oviraptor?), but in another fort I've recently started for myself, I get the current popover. . My recently-created-Mayor, Mr Dodok Ageshkosoth (translates, aptly as it turns out, as the above "Contestpalace") has suddenly become King. With that and the the lack of Outpost Liaison (but still a dwarven caravan, at least), I think my home civilisation is a little... 'unwell'. Now his Decent Office needs to be a Royal Throne Room, the Decent Quarters a Royal Bedroom, the Decent Dining Room a... you've guessed it. Plus now I need a Royal Mausoleum, and of course 8 additional chests, 4 cabinets, 4 weapon racks and 4 armour stands. Time to smelt that gold ore! (Pity I've not discovered platinum, on-map, that's his favourite metal.)
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Oviraptor
3000+
I smell like cabbage..
Did someone say space?
Posts: 3,693
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Post by Oviraptor on Sept 8, 2015 1:11:57 GMT
I'd forgotten about this. My apologies. Will deal with tomorrow morning when sober.
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panicberry
7500+
Phantom of the Opera
God save the Berry!
Posts: 8,150
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Post by panicberry on Sept 8, 2015 2:26:22 GMT
I'd forgotten about this. My apologies. Will deal with tomorrow morning when sober. Boo, make decisions while drunk. How do you think I managed such great expansion in my games?
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Post by QwertyuiopThePie on Sept 8, 2015 10:45:03 GMT
I'd forgotten about this. My apologies. Will deal with tomorrow morning when sober. Boo, make decisions while drunk. How do you think I managed such great expansion in my games? I have a friend who once, as an experiment, played DF on different types of drugs. Caffeine was pretty normal, drunk was just plain incompetent, and weed was... interesting.
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Oviraptor
3000+
I smell like cabbage..
Did someone say space?
Posts: 3,693
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Post by Oviraptor on Sept 8, 2015 14:22:31 GMT
Boo, make decisions while drunk. How do you think I managed such great expansion in my games? I have a friend who once, as an experiment, played DF on different types of drugs. Caffeine was pretty normal, drunk was just plain incompetent, and weed was... interesting. Challenge accepted, I reckon I can DF pretty competently while drunk.
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Oviraptor
3000+
I smell like cabbage..
Did someone say space?
Posts: 3,693
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Post by Oviraptor on Sept 8, 2015 14:30:14 GMT
Ok, so under the impression that one map upload didn't work, I uploaded an identical map (changing the name of the file, to let me do so) while on a more reliable connection, earlier today. And because of the problems, I also waited until then to get the far bigger savegame folder somewhere that Oviraptor (if QwertyuiopThePie intends you to take on the mantle, Ovi) can easily grab it from. It's 7-zip compressed (marginally better than .zip compression, and at the time I was going to take whatever advantage I could, and the 7-zip decompressor should be easy enough to obtain if you don'thave it already), and is the end-of-year autosave file (so as to rule out that I inadvertently might have altered anything while working out what to tell you about the map I'd left). Given this, you might want to strip the date-postfix from the folder name before you play it. I'd also renamed it "cavern2", after grabbing it, instead of "region2", because I had a region2 already in play. As might you. Doesn't affect anything, of course. You also don't need an account on DFFD to download that file (shouldn't even be as much a PITA as Mega was, for me). Whether you then use DFFD to pass on year 252 to Qtp/whoever, or not, doesn't matter. But that option is always there. Any (remaining) questions, I shall endeavour to answer them. Bonne chance. Viel gluck. Buona fortuna. Pob lwc. Xìngyùn. Kia waimarie. Qapla'! And, probably, "Eshon akam", in dwarfish. Okay so I've loaded up the file and I'm spending some time just looking around to see how this fort works. So far the only thing I'm wondering is why the bedrooms are all so ridiculously large.
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panicberry
7500+
Phantom of the Opera
God save the Berry!
Posts: 8,150
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Post by panicberry on Sept 8, 2015 15:08:12 GMT
Boo, make decisions while drunk. How do you think I managed such great expansion in my games? I have a friend who once, as an experiment, played DF on different types of drugs. Caffeine was pretty normal, drunk was just plain incompetent, and weed was... interesting. The first time I seriously played Tuscany in EUIV, I was drunk at a Superbowl party. It was the single best war I ever fought and the most competent commanding of my armies ever.
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Breadknife
1500+
One confusion tends to be its direct inspiration.
Posts: 1,888
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Post by Breadknife on Sept 8, 2015 15:19:48 GMT
Okay so I've loaded up the file and I'm spending some time just looking around to see how this fort works. So far the only thing I'm wondering is why the bedrooms are all so ridiculously large. *casts mind back* The short answer is that where those bedrooms are are(/were) actually intended to be workshop areas for near-surface industries, if that's the set a mere handful of levels below the surface. But when I decided I needed beds, those were handy (burrow-and-digging-priority) defined areas, in amongst the workshop levels. Also, I think it gave me a supply of stone of the kind (mudstone? ..I'll have mentioned it already) that I was using to create a number of the walls. Not that you need to stick to my own OCD methods. ( Aside: I tend to like a 5x5 area for workshops, so that even if enclosed (with a doorway at one or more edges), there's still easy walking in and out. The non-walkable squares of some workshops, I think the jewellers' is one, means that in a 3x3 dug-out room one (and possibly the only, if badly planned!) potential doorway is unusable, thus trapping dwarves in/out of the place. So I use 5x5 rooms, easily created from a shift-cursored 11x11 room then bisected twice with 'undigging' lines in each axis. I can then put a workshop in the centre and a 5x5 (minus the 3x3 as obscured by the workshop footprint, i.e. effectively a 4x4, thanks Pythagoras!) stockpile around the workshop. Related workshops (shared inputs/outputs) can be in adjacent 5x5s within the 11x11 block, or spilling across a hallway in an adjacent set ( edit: or adjacent floor, with vertical travel made easier), and if I want greater security (mood-dwarf going to go insane?) I can put doors/walls up at various entrances, if I haven't gone for greater facility of movement by digging out all the inner walls and making it the whole 11x11 with wide-open spaces for transport/storage purposes. Thus a structured-flexibility, you might say. Whether or not it's considered aesthetic or even optimal.) The longer answer is that I had intended to put them somewhere else, had I had more time/managed to do things quicker than I did. I think there's a layer of chalk or marble (I forget which, but it's an Economic stone) a dozen or so levels down the main shaft, and that's where I would have branched out to put my bedrooms 'permanently'. Admittedly I would still have created 5x5 rooms for bedrooms there. Certainly any nobles would get a suite of such rooms, such as you see part-dug/part-furnished at the corner of the main shaft, which has 4 5x5s accessible through a single door: first an office, off which a bedroom and a dining room branch (I may swap office and dining room round, according to whether the noble is a bookkeeper/manager or tends to eat more than 'officiate'), and then 'room for a tomb' in the final corner. Not that it needs to be there, but I like the neatness of it. Other dwarves may get (unsmoothed, undecorated, unadorned with non-bed furniture) 5x5s, because... hey, that's more economic stone dug out! If I'm feeling stingy, or the layer-stone I'm using isn't important to me then instead of 4 5x5s in a 'shift cursor block', with unique doorways out onto the surrounding corridors, I can make a 2x3 grid of 6 5x3 rooms in the same space, or 9 3x3 rooms (centre needs access through another room, of course) or 12 1x5 rooms 'riblike' out from the centre (bisect the large square, fillet the two halves outwards to their finest, each with their own doorway to the corridor. IYKWIM). That's usually my minimum room size. And, yes, with 5 tiles in area (room for a bed and a number of additional items of furniture), 15 walls-or-corners to decorate/replace-with-fancy-material, a door, it can actually be made quite high value, if necessary, but obviously not as high value as the Suite can be made. But I also tend to quarter all the dwarves in the same layer (or adjacent layers, if I stack), just to more easily keep track. Somewhere mid-way between the top (site of the surface industries) and the bottom (site of the magma industries, unless I'm particularly lucky/unlucky for it to be easier to access/not there at all!). Especially if it gives me a good excuse to mine out masses of marble/etc. Your stratagem could easily be to get the farmers quartered (and fed and 'water'ed) near the farms, the down-belows quartered nearer their speciality, etc. It's your fort now, so you could have your own way of doing this, naturally.
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panicberry
7500+
Phantom of the Opera
God save the Berry!
Posts: 8,150
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Post by panicberry on Sept 8, 2015 15:48:31 GMT
"Short" Answers generally do not contain paragraph asides.
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Breadknife
1500+
One confusion tends to be its direct inspiration.
Posts: 1,888
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Post by Breadknife on Sept 8, 2015 17:05:25 GMT
"Short" Answers generally do not contain paragraph asides. *Pbbbt* Hence the bolding scheme: Short answer 2 paragraphs... each quite short for me! Aside Not part of the answer, and yes it was a bit rambling, at least for a normal person. Long answer Less deliberate restraint as I explain for three (or four, but the last para was really more of an unincorporated sign-off, perhaps with a hint of being a second aside) paragraphs what my dwarven bedrooms would be like, if they had actually not been those temporary ones. HTH, HAND.
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Oviraptor
3000+
I smell like cabbage..
Did someone say space?
Posts: 3,693
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Post by Oviraptor on Sept 11, 2015 13:35:51 GMT
Breadknife: I've mostly found my way around the fort, but I was hoping you'd be able to tell me exactly what everything on this level is intended to be. I know there's a lever room and most of the bottom right row is intended to be workshops, but I'm still confused as to the purpose of the funny shaped dining room and everything in the top left corner.
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