panicberry
7500+
Phantom of the Opera
God save the Berry!
Posts: 8,150
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Post by panicberry on May 17, 2014 15:22:10 GMT
As a note: WE WOULDN'T BE IN THIS POSITION IF WE WOULD HAVE LYNCHED BREADKNIFE ALSO HURD WHO THE FUCK DID YOU TARGET TONIGHT
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Post by whereyouthinkyoupoliying on May 17, 2014 16:24:49 GMT
Dawn breaks over Alhathyr and everyone rushes to the town square to check on the results of the night's activities. When you arrive, you discover Oviraptor and Breadknife holding Indigo immobile. As you size up the situation, trying to decide if you can save Indigo from the two remaining members of the Dark Brotherhood TSM charges forward shouting "Wait!". She pulls her knife, glaring menacingly at the Dark Brotherhood before finishing her call to pause with "You promised that I could kill this one"... With that, she slits Indigo's throat.
There are 3 Dark Brothers and 3 innocents, the Dark Brotherhood has won.
Dark Brotherhood: SCIENCE, jello, Oviraptor, Breadknife, The Beautiful Darkness, TSM (as of the 3rd night) Special Roles at beginning: SCIENCE: Morghul, the Dark Master - leader of the Dark Brotherhood - ability to recruit a new member after a successful lynching of a Dark Brother. When ability is used, a Mad One is created amongst the remaining innocents. panicberry: Arrad Gwachaedir - seer TSM: Uireben of the Palantir - seer chandelier: Nestor, Hand of Rillifane - Priest Hurdegaryp: Lagoruth the Swift - vigilante whereyouthinkyoupoliying: Saelban the Enchanter - ability to bestow two roles upon residents: The Martyr and The Invulnerable One Created Roles: The Mad One: Hurdegaryp - serial killer The Martyr: whereyouthinkyoupoliying - resurrect one previously killed person The Invulnerable One: panicberry - survive one otherwise successful killing. Daaamn, this really isn't the "there's one doctor and one detective, go!" I remember from the olden days.... Nice evil move from She-ep, turning NVO mafia. *grumble* Good to see my fingerpointing at She-ep and TBD back on day 2 turned out to be right at least. And stumbling over jello.
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Дьяково
6250+
Weird, but acceptable
Posts: 6,688
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Post by Дьяково on May 17, 2014 17:07:44 GMT
As a note: WE WOULDN'T BE IN THIS POSITION IF WE WOULD HAVE LYNCHED BREADKNIFE ALSO HURD WHO THE FUCK DID YOU TARGET TONIGHT Hurd targeted you.
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panicberry
7500+
Phantom of the Opera
God save the Berry!
Posts: 8,150
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Post by panicberry on May 17, 2014 17:09:58 GMT
As a note: WE WOULDN'T BE IN THIS POSITION IF WE WOULD HAVE LYNCHED BREADKNIFE ALSO HURD WHO THE FUCK DID YOU TARGET TONIGHT Hurd targeted you. Goddammit guys this is why we lose games. If everyone would have compliantly followed along with my plans exactly, we would have won.
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Дьяково
6250+
Weird, but acceptable
Posts: 6,688
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Post by Дьяково on May 17, 2014 17:23:35 GMT
Dawn breaks over Alhathyr and everyone rushes to the town square to check on the results of the night's activities. When you arrive, you discover Oviraptor and Breadknife holding Indigo immobile. As you size up the situation, trying to decide if you can save Indigo from the two remaining members of the Dark Brotherhood TSM charges forward shouting "Wait!". She pulls her knife, glaring menacingly at the Dark Brotherhood before finishing her call to pause with "You promised that I could kill this one"... With that, she slits Indigo's throat.
There are 3 Dark Brothers and 3 innocents, the Dark Brotherhood has won.
Dark Brotherhood: SCIENCE, jello, Oviraptor, Breadknife, The Beautiful Darkness, TSM (as of the 3rd night) Special Roles at beginning: SCIENCE: Morghul, the Dark Master - leader of the Dark Brotherhood - ability to recruit a new member after a successful lynching of a Dark Brother. When ability is used, a Mad One is created amongst the remaining innocents. panicberry: Arrad Gwachaedir - seer TSM: Uireben of the Palantir - seer chandelier: Nestor, Hand of Rillifane - Priest Hurdegaryp: Lagoruth the Swift - vigilante whereyouthinkyoupoliying: Saelban the Enchanter - ability to bestow two roles upon residents: The Martyr and The Invulnerable One Created Roles: The Mad One: Hurdegaryp - serial killer The Martyr: whereyouthinkyoupoliying - resurrect one previously killed person The Invulnerable One: panicberry - survive one otherwise successful killing. Daaamn, this really isn't the "there's one doctor and one detective, go!" I remember from the olden days.... Nice evil move from She-ep, turning NVO mafia. *grumble* Good to see my fingerpointing at She-ep and TBD back on day 2 turned out to be right at least. And stumbling over jello. More optional roles seems to keep more people involved and interested... Or at least it appears that way to me...
Also, a little clarity on the deaths... Throat slit = Dark Brotherhood Arrow in eye = Vigilante (Hurd) Dismemberment = The Mad One (Hurd)
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TSM
5000+
Ableist Kinkshamer
Posts: 5,195
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Post by TSM on May 17, 2014 17:32:37 GMT
Goddammit guys this is why we lose games. If everyone would have compliantly followed along with my plans exactly, we would have won. I wouldn't be too sure about that.
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Post by jello on May 17, 2014 20:28:43 GMT
So I assume I was right that wytyg PMed people to tell them to be suspicious of me?
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Post by whereyouthinkyoupoliying on May 17, 2014 21:28:28 GMT
More optional roles seems to keep more people involved and interested... Or at least it appears that way to me... Yeah, I'm sure it does. So was it a coincidence that Hurd, who was already the Vigilante, was turned into the Mad One? Or was that your doing?
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Breadknife
1500+
One confusion tends to be its direct inspiration.
Posts: 1,888
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Post by Breadknife on May 17, 2014 21:33:06 GMT
That explains the multi-kill roles. Although I don't know if NVO could have been a little freer with the background information (I was half suspecting double-agent, to be honest... perhaps even a "townie recruiter" role that had somehow reversed our own little trump-card). By the way, Pope, I wasn't going to act upon your night communication, and I was half torn whether to just ignore it or say that it was "not something I could control". But night actually ended before I made up my mind. I'm pretty sure I couldn't have convinced you of my innocence (I prepped a "claim" screenshot, which is on a different computer at the moment, but it was entirely fake) and in fact I'd been carefully making myself just suspicious-looking enough that I'd be lynched in favour of She-ep, for as long as I was able. Or that was the plan, then She-ep got vigged, and I had to rely on wrong assumptionms about Jorm (an understandable miscount, if you'd already accepted Ovi as white-hat, at least for a while, even without NVO's turning) ruining Elditch's credibility. Deliberately not killing Eld or the townie who joined the "two 'known' townies" and myself in the vote for Jorm's dispatch. (I'm not sure how sincere you were about the apparent existence of Lovers or ignoring the apparent vig/SK role in our midst. That took me by surprise, but I was going to try to twist the knife in if you'd persisted with that worldview.) I was also worried that there was more than a one-shot ressurectist (which, as it turned out, there wasn't) which would have reversed another innocent being lynched immediately after a day that (while we still could) we hadn't gained a "mafia martyr" for our own ability to kick in for. I liked the asymmetric balancing act, though. It would have been easy to have matched ability against (identical, but oppositely-aligned) ability, of course, but not as 'interesting'. Until I get back home and to my prior game-notes, I'm not entirely sure it ends up neutrally-biased, but at first sight it looks like it could have easily gone either way, balanced on a knife-edge according to how some of the sequence of actions played out. (For example, two mafia-recruitment actions would have produced two Mad Ones. They'd have been anti-town, but more likely to have hit the (replenished) mafia membership, and have drawn fire from the mafiaship from the remaining innocents in a similar manner.) But I definitely started to be convinced of Serrland/Jorm's non-innocence (3rd-party blackhats, of some form), prior to my deliberate targetting of them (and, in fact, was starting to play as if the mafia I was in was actually a Mason Group, thinking I ought to be disposing of the unaligned killers first in order to give mafia a clean-sweep against the Town), and it looks like I was entirely wrong in that regard. Sorry, that's a bit TL;DR;. I'm just a bit surprised to have found myself at end-game, already, and was thinking I'd be doing this little post-mortem only after I returned home again, tomorrow. I'm not actually sure whether I'm glad I specially logged in, just now, or not.
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Post by whereyouthinkyoupoliying on May 17, 2014 21:34:44 GMT
So I assume I was right that wytyg PMed people to tell them to be suspicious of me? Ish. I told Edlichbury (and by extension NVO and Chandy, the other known innocents at the time) about my exchange with you and said that I might have made a huge blunder by coming out to you because you seemed very fishy in your replies, and that I was pretty sure you're mafia. Here's my final PM to them: So it wasn't exactly like you wrote it, but close enough.
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Breadknife
1500+
One confusion tends to be its direct inspiration.
Posts: 1,888
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Post by Breadknife on May 17, 2014 21:53:17 GMT
whereyouthinkyoupoliying: Not that I'm saying you definitely shouldn't have (it's probably something needing talking about in the Synod thread), but once you're actually informed that you're dead (normally first thing in a morning, but I see why the exception of during the night, in your case) I would normally expect that you wouldn't continue to provide further information to those remaining living. Obviously private night conversations had before that point aren't a problem, but the elevation of suspicions to 100% (and possibly even the invulnerability information, which actually passed through to us, via NVO, as being a permanent protection, not "1-shot, to be lost after the first attempt" one... so misdirected us all, somewhat) probably should have been left unsaid. In my ideal world. As player, and sometime mod, that is, and perhaps a bit fuddy-duddy in my chosen style of play. i.e. it's not actually a complaint insofar as my transient role of Mafia Member, this game... in fact, as you see, Jello's death helped us out (...but also complicated matters, unbeknownst to us), but I'm not sure at the moment how things may have swung without that ringing 'unendorsement' of Jello from your own fair (if lifeless) lips...
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Post by jello on May 17, 2014 22:11:10 GMT
So I assume I was right that wytyg PMed people to tell them to be suspicious of me? Ish. I told Edlichbury (and by extension NVO and Chandy, the other known innocents at the time) about my exchange with you and said that I might have made a huge blunder by coming out to you because you seemed very fishy in your replies, and that I was pretty sure you're mafia. Oh, good. That's much more interesting to me than having been investigated and discovered by a detective.
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Post by jello on May 17, 2014 22:12:42 GMT
Anyway, good work on the game, LAR, and thanks for running it.
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Oviraptor
3000+
I smell like cabbage..
Did someone say space?
Posts: 3,693
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Post by Oviraptor on May 17, 2014 22:13:41 GMT
Anyway, good work on the game, LAR, and thanks for running it. Ovi, will you be posting a signup thread in the forum for your game soon? Way ahead of you.
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Post by jello on May 17, 2014 22:14:37 GMT
Heh, yeah I saw that after I posted. Oops.
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panicberry
7500+
Phantom of the Opera
God save the Berry!
Posts: 8,150
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Post by panicberry on May 17, 2014 22:28:43 GMT
I will admit that the end kind of fucked up, but what really irritated me is that had the four remaining civilians followed my lead during the lynch and at night, I would have been able to live.
Though in retrospect TSM's "I have proof if noninnocence" should have been a tip off because we didn't actually have any at the time and were relying of process of elimination.
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Post by The Beautiful Darkness on May 17, 2014 23:06:41 GMT
Yes, good game, thanks Dya!
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Breadknife
1500+
One confusion tends to be its direct inspiration.
Posts: 1,888
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Post by Breadknife on May 17, 2014 23:12:29 GMT
As I noted privately amongst the mafia, in our discussions, the non-innocence verdict potentially damned our turncoat as much as (if not more than) your initial misattributation of loyalties, given the discrepancy. But then I was suspecting Miller/anti-Miller roles would be found to have existed (i.e. upon various forms of investigation and/or death exhibiting a contrary alignment to actuality), and would have conveniently overlooked that whilst chipping away at your reliability.
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TSM
5000+
Ableist Kinkshamer
Posts: 5,195
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Post by TSM on May 17, 2014 23:50:32 GMT
I will admit that the end kind of fucked up, but what really irritated me is that had the four remaining civilians followed my lead during the lynch and at night, I would have been able to live. Though in retrospect TSM's "I have proof if noninnocence" should have been a tip off because we didn't actually have any at the time and were relying of process of elimination. When you were gonna lynch breadknife as opposed to jorm? nah we had a contingency for that
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TSM
5000+
Ableist Kinkshamer
Posts: 5,195
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Post by TSM on May 17, 2014 23:51:01 GMT
also the proof of jorm's noninnocence was ill considered, and also a lie. a plausible one though.
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panicberry
7500+
Phantom of the Opera
God save the Berry!
Posts: 8,150
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Post by panicberry on May 17, 2014 23:51:04 GMT
As I noted privately amongst the mafia, in our discussions, the non-innocence verdict potentially damned our turncoat as much as (if not more than) your initial misattributation of loyalties, given the discrepancy. But then I was suspecting Miller/anti-Miller roles would be found to have existed (i.e. upon various forms of investigation and/or death exhibiting a contrary alignment to actuality), and would have conveniently overlooked that whilst chipping away at your reliability. My only question is how would you establish my noninnocence given that TSM herself was the source of my case for innocence.
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panicberry
7500+
Phantom of the Opera
God save the Berry!
Posts: 8,150
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Post by panicberry on May 17, 2014 23:51:54 GMT
I will admit that the end kind of fucked up, but what really irritated me is that had the four remaining civilians followed my lead during the lynch and at night, I would have been able to live. Though in retrospect TSM's "I have proof if noninnocence" should have been a tip off because we didn't actually have any at the time and were relying of process of elimination. When you were gonna lynch breadknife as opposed to jorm? nah we had a contingency for that I have my own contingencies. Notably the ability to constantly fall back on your first night investigation clearing me.
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TSM
5000+
Ableist Kinkshamer
Posts: 5,195
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Post by TSM on May 18, 2014 0:10:36 GMT
True!
But you were protected anyway, so it was never about killing you. Rather, it was always about cutting out your support base.
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Post by whereyouthinkyoupoliying on May 18, 2014 1:18:23 GMT
whereyouthinkyoupoliying: Not that I'm saying you definitely shouldn't have (it's probably something needing talking about in the Synod thread), but once you're actually informed that you're dead (normally first thing in a morning, but I see why the exception of during the night, in your case) I would normally expect that you wouldn't continue to provide further information to those remaining living. Obviously private night conversations had before that point aren't a problem, but the elevation of suspicions to 100% (and possibly even the invulnerability information, which actually passed through to us, via NVO, as being a permanent protection, not "1-shot, to be lost after the first attempt" one... so misdirected us all, somewhat) probably should have been left unsaid. In my ideal world. As player, and sometime mod, that is, and perhaps a bit fuddy-duddy in my chosen style of play. i.e. it's not actually a complaint insofar as my transient role of Mafia Member, this game... in fact, as you see, Jello's death helped us out (...but also complicated matters, unbeknownst to us), but I'm not sure at the moment how things may have swung without that ringing 'unendorsement' of Jello from your own fair (if lifeless) lips... Generally, I absolutely agree with you. I said as much in the synod thread and realized belatedly that technically the PM quoted above violates my own rule of "no (important) talk after you're dead". I will say that it didn't feel like I was all that dead yet, seeing how Dyakovo PMed me to tell me I'd been targeted by the mafia and to ask who I wanted to resurrect in my stead. So I told him, then told the others what had happened and whom I'd chosen, then Dyakovo PMed me back to confirm the resurrection. That all happened inside of like 10 minutes in the middle of the "night". Another 15 minutes later Dyakovo PMed me saying "don't tell anyone, but the mafia killed you because your suspicions as to who's mafia were pretty close", i.e. NOT because jello told them about my role [obviously I don't know what was the actual cause], and I would never have shared that newfound intel with the others (even though I really wanted to ). So I guess what I'm saying is: you're right and I agree with you, but at the time my last PM felt totally legit. The whole "I'm dead, so sharing this info would be cheating" only kicked in after that, probably because it was a) still "in the middle of the play" and, more importantly, b) there was no new info shared that I was only privy to because I was dead, which is I think the point of the "no talking once you're dead" rule. But yeah, you're right, if I hadn't mentioned jello again they might have started with lynching someone else. It would have meant that they hadn't really been paying attention, because at that point he was the only one against whom we had anything to go on, but yeah. I guess I'll have to be more careful in the future.
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Breadknife
1500+
One confusion tends to be its direct inspiration.
Posts: 1,888
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Post by Breadknife on May 18, 2014 1:20:41 GMT
My only question is how would you establish my noninnocence given that TSM herself was the source of my case for innocence. There are plenty of quite well documented mafia roles that I could have tarred you with (not necessarily indelibly, but certainly enough for doubt and confusion. Maybe you're a Godfather (anti-Miller) figure? Perhaps there was a Bus Driver (action redirector) at work? Perhaps TSM could have been a non-sane cop (either random results, only in this instance definitely being not coincidentally not wrong, or under a temporary gees vy another to give the insane, i.e. flipped, results), which at this stage would have caused severe uncertainty. But I was expendible, still. Having already tried to nudge myself as semi-suspicious (for now redundant reasons), you could waste another day lynching me and my brethren/sistren/othren would have remained untouched (the biggest danger to them being the SK/Vig roles, for different reasons and to different degrees). The recently 'defriended' Ovi might have been next to fall to the lynch, it seems, if not by night-action. But with depleted numbers, themselves, the town could still be vulnerable to the nigh-on unimpeachable mole. If player right.
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panicberry
7500+
Phantom of the Opera
God save the Berry!
Posts: 8,150
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Post by panicberry on May 18, 2014 1:22:15 GMT
Also important final note: detectives just learning alignment creates some really interesting issues on things like Hurd's partnering, or if there is a puppeptmaster.
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Post by whereyouthinkyoupoliying on May 18, 2014 1:22:44 GMT
True! But you were protected anyway, so it was never about killing you. Rather, it was always about cutting out your support base. I was actually totally surprised that the mafia never tried to kill Edlichbury. Seeing that you were turned I'm even more surprised, because you knew that his protection was a one-time deal. Was it just quicker to kill the regular townies instead of wasting 2 nights on him?
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panicberry
7500+
Phantom of the Opera
God save the Berry!
Posts: 8,150
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Post by panicberry on May 18, 2014 1:23:47 GMT
True! But you were protected anyway, so it was never about killing you. Rather, it was always about cutting out your support base. I was actually totally surprised that the mafia never tried to kill Edlichbury. Seeing that you were turned I'm even more surprised, because you knew that his protection was a one-time deal. Was it just quicker to kill the regular townies instead of wasting 2 nights on him? If I was mafia, I would certainly just leave me alive. All they have to do is get enough civilians dead that they have a majority, and they win (which is what happened.)
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Breadknife
1500+
One confusion tends to be its direct inspiration.
Posts: 1,888
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Post by Breadknife on May 18, 2014 1:27:56 GMT
But yeah, you're right, if I hadn't mentioned jello again they might have started with lynching someone else. It would have meant that they hadn't really been paying attention, because at that point he was the only one against whom we had anything to go on, but yeah. I guess I'll have to be more careful in the future. I think what I wrote went a bit further than I meant. And I've also been known to have loose lips of the ship-sinking kind, so please don't take my comments as more severe than intended!
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TSM
5000+
Ableist Kinkshamer
Posts: 5,195
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Post by TSM on May 18, 2014 1:33:56 GMT
True! But you were protected anyway, so it was never about killing you. Rather, it was always about cutting out your support base. I was actually totally surprised that the mafia never tried to kill Edlichbury. Seeing that you were turned I'm even more surprised, because you knew that his protection was a one-time deal. Was it just quicker to kill the regular townies instead of wasting 2 nights on him? Basically, yeah. Turned out well enough!
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