Дьяково
6250+
Weird, but acceptable
Posts: 6,688
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Post by Дьяково on Jul 21, 2014 22:39:12 GMT
Well, it was definitely different... And it was nice to see that I had the right idea about what caused recruitment failure... I thought "target is mafia" was the recruitment fail condition. Which, as it turns out wasn't that far off. whereyouthinkyoupoliying IDing as a townie confused the hell out of me. You lied about me to Sniffles! I was actually appalled at that. Hey! I didn't lie... I was just wrong...
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2014 22:41:31 GMT
I thoroughly enjoyed this Cult idea, just so you're aware.
Two cults though, I wonder why I didn't think of that before.
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Post by whereyouthinkyoupoliying on Jul 21, 2014 22:41:47 GMT
Thanks for the behind-the-scenes explanations! (there's an error in Night One, jello was the leader of the Caves). So the wild stab in my PM about there maybe being no mafia at all and instead two cults was right on! Which of course is immediately devalued by the fact that I was SOOOOOOO sure that TBD was mafia and that everybody was just too blind to see it.
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Post by The Beautiful Darkness on Jul 21, 2014 22:46:01 GMT
Clearly I wasn't mafia. I was so confused that I wasn't even lynching someone (way out of character for me )
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Дьяково
6250+
Weird, but acceptable
Posts: 6,688
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Post by Дьяково on Jul 21, 2014 22:53:06 GMT
Thanks for the behind-the-scenes explanations! (there's an error in Night One, jello was the leader of the Caves). So the wild stab in my PM about there maybe being no mafia at all and instead two cults was right on! Which of course is immediately devalued by the fact that I was SOOOOOOO sure that TBD was mafia and that everybody was just too blind to see it. I'm mildly disappointed that the two cults possibility never occurred to me...
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Post by whereyouthinkyoupoliying on Jul 21, 2014 22:53:16 GMT
Clearly I wasn't mafia. I was so confused that I wasn't even lynching someone (way out of character for me ) That's exactly why I thought you were!! In fact, my exact words to Breadknife were "How is it not obvious to everybody that TBD is mafia? (she said, hoping she was right after phrasing it like that...) Every game she posts about hating it when nobody gets lynched because the only ones who profit are the mafia - and here she is, voting to not lynch! Come on people!" Yeah.......
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Дьяково
6250+
Weird, but acceptable
Posts: 6,688
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Post by Дьяково on Jul 21, 2014 22:55:54 GMT
Clearly I wasn't mafia. I was so confused that I wasn't even lynching someone (way out of character for me ) That's exactly why I thought you were!! In fact, my exact words to Breadknife were "How is it not obvious to everybody that TBD is mafia? (she said, hoping she was right after phrasing it like that...) Every game she posts about hating it when nobody gets lynched because the only ones who profit are the mafia - and here she is, voting to not lynch! Come on people!" Yeah....... By that time I was convinced that there was no actual mafia...
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Post by The Beautiful Darkness on Jul 21, 2014 22:56:30 GMT
Yeah, I didn't think there were mafia. Of course, I have no idea what was actually going on either.
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Gamerdog
2000+
Benomia/Bezombia from NS
Posts: 2,209
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Post by Gamerdog on Jul 21, 2014 22:59:11 GMT
To be completely honest, this was pretty lame. "Nobody knows what's going on" can only go SO far before it stops being an "air of mystery" and starts being a chore. The fact that literally anyone who wasn't already in on what was going on could possibly have guessed it just makes it even worse.
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Дьяково
6250+
Weird, but acceptable
Posts: 6,688
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Post by Дьяково on Jul 21, 2014 23:02:39 GMT
Yeah, I didn't think there were mafia. Of course, I have no idea what was actually going on either. I was convinced we (the cult of the bat) were the mafia equivalent for the game...
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Breadknife
1500+
One confusion tends to be its direct inspiration.
Posts: 1,888
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Post by Breadknife on Jul 21, 2014 23:33:57 GMT
To be completely honest, this was pretty lame. "Nobody knows what's going on" can only go SO far before it stops being an "air of mystery" and starts being a chore. The fact that literally anyone who wasn't already in on what was going on could possibly have guessed it just makes it even worse. I was hoping to keep as many people enthralled as possible. I couldn't do much for for the Townies Who By Now Had No Chance To Win As Townies (you and Ovi were the last two standing, so I can imagine your frustration), but Plan A was to do something similar to what I did, just now, do and add every Dead Townie to a "Sorry You're Dead, But Perhaps You'll Find This Interesting" private-message thread. With the lack of deaths in the early stages (when Townies were actually the most likely to be knocked out of the process) this devolved into asking (I hope... apologise if I ultimately missed anyone!) each person who died regardless of their state of allegiance as they dropped out. I only really got one reply in the affirmative (but I felt better in that it was upbeat), meaning there really wasn't a point in doing it. As a first-day-lynched person, myself, on a couple of occasions (although in one case "I got better!"), and also suffering from Night 1 MafiaKill (again, I Got Better, before being killed again Night 2), I know how frustrating it is for those suffering from early-game endeadedness. Personally, I keep on playing the game anyway, albeit privately, and at least keeping the Mod entertained along the way. If I neglected the feelings of late-game innocents, I apologise, but it was a necessary penalty given the possibility you could end up being a non-innocent before close-of-play. (Also, simulations had suggested that the likely game-length would have been to maybe Night Three or Day Four at latest, depending on how I balanced the simulated bloodlust of those taking part, so I had rather decided it would be less trouble than it ended up being.) And then, as I think I might have mentioned somewhere during this game (privately or publicly, I can't remember), I may have designed this game to appeal to my kind of nature. Sometimes I ignore the voices in my head who (as well as telling me not to go on a rampage in the local shopping centre) are trying to remind me that not everybody thinks the way that I do. I hope you don't think I made this thing to just entertain me, though. (Although it did, at times, in-between the feeling that I'd done something awfully wrong by just being so darn experimental.) I had hoped it would have gone better (smoother, quicker, more along the lines as was simulated), but at times it reminded me of some tabletop wargaming WW1 trench warfare, which I did a number of years ago, that just turned out to be horrendously and depressingly futile to play (i.e. probably what the real situation was like, once you took away the actual fear of death and personal threat, and a little less trench actual foot while you're at it). I'm glad there were some high-points, for some people. But I promise I'll never try this (well, not this exact scenario, at least!) again...
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Post by whereyouthinkyoupoliying on Jul 21, 2014 23:34:17 GMT
To be completely honest, this was pretty lame. "Nobody knows what's going on" can only go SO far before it stops being an "air of mystery" and starts being a chore. The fact that literally anyone who wasn't already in on what was going on could possibly have guessed it just makes it even worse. I don't understand your last sentence, but re. the first part: I didn't think so. I've hardly ever been mafia in any of my mafia games, most often I'm a regular ol' townie. As such, I NEVER know what's going on. Even if I'm a townie with a power that still doesn't tell me anything. Unless I find other townies behind the scenes or other townies find me behind the scenes, that's it. All I can do is wait for the next day and vote to lynch - either completely randomly or based on some hunch or suspicion I might have. And I fail to see how this game was any different in that regard. It's not like in a normal game every death gives me a clue - far from it. So I don't really see how the fact that there were so few deaths in this game made it worse. And if someone REALLY wanted to get people lynched they probably could have voted accordingly.
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Gamerdog
2000+
Benomia/Bezombia from NS
Posts: 2,209
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Post by Gamerdog on Jul 21, 2014 23:47:32 GMT
I guess I should explain more.
When I read breadknife's post about the "reveal", I thought to myself that I might as well have been reading the plot synopsis of a book I hadn't read. The lack of deaths wasn't the problem, it was that things were so radically different but there was NO way of knowing that things weren't exactly the same as before, other than some vague "hints" by breadknife that may or may not even have been true. I felt this so much that looking back, it really wouldn't have made a different to my interaction with the game at all if I had died on day one and just walked away. A big part of the strategy behind mafia is personally trying to figure out who is and is not a member of the mafia; that layer of strategy completely disappears when the "mafia" doesn't even exist as it typically does and when there's no way to actually know that it doesn't exist unless you're literally part of it. And I got the same feeling reading through breadknife's "here's what you DIDN'T see" private message. Like I might as well not even have been a part of the game, because I was barely even ABLE to interact with it.
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Breadknife
1500+
One confusion tends to be its direct inspiration.
Posts: 1,888
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Post by Breadknife on Jul 22, 2014 1:07:44 GMT
Hansel (aligned as if a Vig, but used/played/treated like SK) was a shock in the Fairytale Mafia. Your own "Cop Mafia" pirate-with-a-monkey was an unexpected twist in the prior game. I'm still not entirely sure Edlich's 'investigator' in the Alhathyr game was "Standard Cop" (although obviously wasn't a Brotherhood member, because I'd have known). The dual-rolled Mafia-types from the Infiltrator games (Barbarian, Slaughtermaster and Watcher) were a twist on the standard, of which I don't think I ever discovered the full story, and the two pairs of Lovers (was each of them Townie..? I don't have that recorded properly) seems to have been unexpected. And that's not counting Mafia Recruiters (e.g. in Alhathyr, again). It appears most Mafia games have had some "weirdness" to them that means saying "14 players, so that's perhaps five vanilla Mafioso we need to guard against, and in the rest there's one Cop-type, one Doctor-type, perhaps a town-friendly Vigilante, and if we're unlucky (or at least a couple of players, in particular, are) there's a Cupid who has created two Lovers who are doubly likely to die, perhaps due to actions from either faction" is not enough confusion. (And there is confusion, already. The possibility that the Cop has become a Lover with a Mafia sweetheart, so may have to lie to Town to try to survive, just as their counterpart has to perhaps futilely argue against the Mafia's prime enemy being killed...) TBD knows how many different (sometimes right, often wrong) theories I privately suggested to her, last game, even whilst I was game-dead (for the final time), e.g. wondering whether there's a Hansel and Gretel love-linked Cop-Cum-Vigilante pair operating (partly right, as it turned out, but not anywhere near as contrived/elaborate as I'd been guessing), and still thinking there was a Wicked Witch (of the Sleeping Beauty antagonist kind) right to the end, when it turns out (I think) that it was 'merely' a Wicked Stepmother (with two Wicked Stepdaughters with their own special and extraordinary functional link of their own, that actually ended up unused...). I always hate Day One, for the utter unknowing. (Except maybe when I'm playing Mafia myself, and even then I can quite easily feign the missing confusion because although I'm Mafia-Aware I know that there's likely some hidden opposing abilities that I need to be concerned about, during the coming Night One.) And come Day Five I can be still surprised. No, I have sympathy with your position. I don't apologise for the off-the-beaten-track setup, though, because that was entirely intentional. I primarily think that it's far more my (unintentional) fault that whoever necessarily had to endure the longest period of confusion (you, as it turned out) had to endure it for longer than I had planned, and this was not what I'd wanted. Both in game-phases and in real-time length of time could have been shortened, with the courage to do so. You may still have been the one ending up in the unenviable position of having the same powerlessness/knowledgelessness within the game (or you may not) but you wouldn't have felt it so nearly as acutely, methinks. Sitting on night-time results that only I knew for up to 23 hours of real time? I should have started the Day in early and made it last 23 (or so) hours on top of the zero/twenty-four remainder of the two/one-day discussion ime-span (depending what I was to do with Daytimes, as discussed) and hurried things along somewhat. Sometimes I think I'm my own worst critic. It would actually be surprisingly reassuring to find out I'm wrong.
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Post by jello on Jul 22, 2014 1:14:09 GMT
That was fun. Perhaps because I was a cult leader, but I enjoyed it. Curses to TBD's lack of knowledge as to what was going on.
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Post by The Beautiful Darkness on Jul 22, 2014 1:45:50 GMT
That was fun. Perhaps because I was a cult leader, but I enjoyed it. Curses to TBD's lack of knowledge as to what was going on. Because you tried to recruit me in consequence?
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Post by jello on Jul 22, 2014 9:43:53 GMT
Exactly. I can't say for sure that I otherwise wouldn't have tried, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have.
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Дьяково
6250+
Weird, but acceptable
Posts: 6,688
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Post by Дьяково on Jul 22, 2014 13:02:34 GMT
It's what convinced me she'd be a good choice. We were just a bit quicker.
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